Contrast
If variety is the spice of life, then contrast is the reduction sauce -- it makes almost everything in life better: food (sweet and sour, soft and crunchy), music (quiet then loud, slow then fast), and, of course, sex (see music contrasts).However, I've noticed some interesting contrasts coming out of Los Osos lately that don't taste so good; some ugly Yin Yang.
On the "Yang" side of the contrast is the unnerving and increasing amount of correspondence coming through my e-mail box regarding the affect the Cease and Desist Orders are having on the lives of not only the 45 CDO recipients, but also other Los Osos residents, as they worry about what is in store for them.
Representing the "Yin" side of the contrast is a coordinated series of e-mails to the executive director of the Regional Water Quality Control Board, Roger Briggs. The e-mails were sent by several people (one, as far away as London!) over a two-day span last September, just two days after the recall election, and appear to be part of a deliberate and desperate "strategy" to retain the Tri-W project.
In an e-mail to Briggs, dated, Wednesday, September 28, 2005, Save the Dream marketing director and strong supporter of the recently recalled CSD Directors, Pandora Nash-Karner, says, "I'd like to talk to you about potential strategy from the property owners to stop a new board from stopping the project. I'll call you Thursday morning."
Apparently the idea behind that "strategy" was/is to actively lobby the RWQCB to fine anything that moves in Los Osos so it will bankrupt and cripple everyone, everywhere -- neighbors, businesses, governmental agencies, anything -- in a desperate attempt get the project back in the hands of the county as fast as possible, in the hope that there's at least a slim chance the county will be as stupid as the 1999-2005 CSD Boards, and the county will complete the work at Tri-W -- there's no chance at all of that happening with the current CSD Board.
("Please... is there any way to salvage the project??????????????????," and, "We MUST save this project!" Both quotes from, Pandora Nash-Karner, just one day after last September's recall election.)
On, Thursday, September 29, 2005, two days after the recall election and one day before the results were even certified, the series of e-mails demanding that the RWQCB fine the LOCSD and Los Osos residents began.
Yep, apparently that's her "strategy." How's that taste, Los Osos?
These days, however, that strategy does make for some very interesting and ugly contrasts in Los Osos.
For example...
The following quote is from someone named, Francisco Focha. He sent it to Briggs two days after the recall election last September, as part of a lobbying campaign to get the RWQCB to start fining the LOCSD and the people of Los Osos.
Yin:
"I think your office should be both swift and brutal with enforcement action against my town."
Now, let me see if I can find something on the Yang side of that, you know, for contrast... anything... let's see here... do-do-do... Ah, yes. Here we go. Perfect:
Yang (from a recent correspondence):
"This prosecution has invaded our lives. We take it to work and home again. We eat our meals with it."
See how that works? The stark contrast? On one side you have, "swift and brutal with enforcement action," and on the other side you have, "This prosecution has invaded our lives."
Wait. There's more.
The following quote is from someone named, Jerry Gregory. He sent it to Briggs two days after the recall election last September, as part of a lobbying campaign to get the RWQCB to start fining the LOCSD and the people of Los Osos.
Yin:
"I asked you to fine the Community of Los Osos if the Recall is successful. Well, I am asking you again. Please do this immediately and with the largest fine that is legal for you to do."
Yang (from a recent correspondence):
"Faced with the CDO's causing condemnation of our home and causing us to have to vacate our home - well, it's more than anyone should have to live with."
Here's another one, if you can stomach it:
The following quote is from someone named, Gail Smith-Deegan. She sent it to Briggs two days after the recall election last September, as part of a lobbying campaign to get the RWQCB to start fining the LOCSD and the people of Los Osos.
Yin:
"I am asking you to... move swiftly to enforce the sanctions against the LOCSD and the individual dischargers as well. I feel it is important to move fast and harsh to stop this as soon as possible. I request no delays and no softening of the blows!"
Yang (from a recent correspondence):
"These have not been easy months for those of us who have received Proposed CDOs. We are exhausted beyond your understanding."
("Exhausted beyond your understanding?" Good news, Mrs. Smith-Deegan, it sounds like no blows were softened.)
Here's some more contrast-y stuff for ya...
The following quote is from someone named, Martha Neder. She sent it to Briggs two days after the recall election last September, as part of a lobbying campaign to get the RWQCB to start fining the LOCSD and the people of Los Osos.
Yin:
"As much as I hate to say it (being a property owner), I think (the enforcement action) should include action against individual property owners."
But Neder wasn't done there. Whoooa, no... not by a long shot. She also thought it'd be a good idea if she got loose with this blast:
"I also think the enforcement action should be swift and strong. Rather than kill us slowly, please make it quick so that people feel the effects and the project moves on to someone who can finish it."
Yang (from a recent correspondence):
"It is like waiting for the executioner's axe to take its toll. We both have been worrying night and day about what is going to happen to us."
The following quote is from someone named, Michael Reddell. He sent it to Briggs two days after the recall election last September, as part of a lobbying campaign to get the RWQCB to start fining the LOCSD and the people of Los Osos.
Yin:
"I think each and every septic system in the community should be condemned outright. That would do the trick over night. Make it personally urgent and they will come around... or leave."
Yang (from a recent correspondence):
"(This prosecution) sends us to the hospital for emergency treatment for high blood pressure, heart conditions, and stress."
(Does a trip to the hospital count as "leaving?")
The following quote is from someone named, Richard S. Sargent. He sent it to Briggs two days after the recall election last September, as part of a lobbying campaign to get the RWQCB to start fining the LOCSD and the people of Los Osos.
Yin:
"Please carry out your warning of fines. Los Osos residents need to face reality. I have, and hope that your fines will result in the dissolution of the CSD and the uninterrupted construction of the current wastewater plant."
Yang (from a recent correspondence):
"(This prosecution) is there when we help our children with their homework and when we play with our pets. It is there when we talk to our grandchildren on the phone. It is there when we spend time with friends, attend church, or work in our gardens."
The following quote is from someone named, James F. Godfrey. He sent it to Briggs two days after the recall election last September, as part of a lobbying campaign to get the RWQCB to start fining the LOCSD and the people of Los Osos.
Yin:
"I am encouraging the Regional Water Quality Control Board to pursue fining the Los Osos CSD and who ever else need be. I personally think the threats of fining our community must come to a halt and action by the RWQCB is the only solution... The harsh action by the RWQCB should wake up Los Osos..."
Yang (from a recent correspondence):
"We sleep with it. We wake up in the night with it."
(Woke 'em right up, Mr. Godfrey.)
Yin:
"I would ask you to stand your ground and begin actively enforcing the penalties..."
-- Mike Hensley
Yin:
"I hope you'll start out by fining the CSD and only move to fine the individual property owners if you encounter further resistance and are still unable to get the project back on track."
-- Lisa K. Miller
Yin:
"The state needs to Step Up or Shut UP! The State, the Water Quality Control Board and the County needs to disband the CSD and take control of this project! The threats of fines to deaf (sic) the dumb and the incompetent new Board members will only delay the project. Please do what is right for the real concerned majority property owners of Los Osos."
-- Leon Van Beurden
And, of course, in true SewerWatch fashion, the best for last:
Yin:
"I hope the CSD gets fined out of existence..."
-- Pandora Nash-Karner, September 28, 2005, one day after a hard-fought and bitter election defeat.
Yang:
"The CSD Board looks forward to having a positive relationship with the County..."
-- Pandora Nash-Karner, December, 1998, as the newly elected, number-one vote getter in the initial CSD Board election.
Yin:
"In order to expedite the situation and lesson the damage, can the enforcement issue be placed on the October RWQCB agenda?"
-- Pandora Nash-Karner, September, 2005
Yang:
"Our Dream was to create a community coalition to seek grants to reduce the wastewater project's cost and to help residents on fixed incomes. Save the Dream cannot move forward with our goals."
-- Pandora Nash-Karner, September, 2005
Yin:
"... could the LOCSD transfer the sewer project to the county BEFORE the current CSD-3 leave office?"
-- Pandora Nash-Karner, September, 2005
Yang:
"The County couldn't care less about the Los Osos Community..."
-- Gary Karner, February, 2005
###
posted by Ron at
12:55 PM
41 Comments:
Dissolve for sure, and then pray.
By
Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky, at 11:49 PM, May 13, 2006
Neighbors who participated in 'bringing on the fines' should be ashamed of themselves; as each of those 45 families is suffering with stress related illness, marital strain and ongoing financial hardship as they attend hearings and workshops instead of tending to their daily lives and jobs...Makes borrowing a cup of sugar a game of risk instead of the neighborly way of life.
FYI, Jerry Gregory is a well known realtor, with plenty to gain by the gentrification of Los Osos. Martha Neder is on the County Planning staff, she ought to think before she acts, she may be putting her job on the line.
Who knows what would motivate neighbors to lobby for fines against their community? It's a sick and twisted game...for what? A park we can't afford? A project that was incomplete (and dangerous)? Jerry and MArtha are inteligent folk, they both have knowledge in landuse issues and should roll up their sleves and help rather than stab their neighbors in the back or kick them when they're down...butt out of my life.
By
Anonymous, at 6:58 AM, May 14, 2006
Yup, Crawford lives in the past
...He offers no solutions
...He only wants to "stir the pot" with meaningless opinions about other peoples actions or insane comspiracy theories.
THERE ARE NO ANSWERS ON THIS BLOG.
By
Anonymous, at 11:18 AM, May 14, 2006
Solutions pollutions, bah! what I want to know is, am I a Yin or Yang?
Why the heck would he offer a soultion?
He dose not live in Los Osos.
I don't blame him a bit.
It's got to be great word fodder.
By
Mike Green, at 3:56 PM, May 14, 2006
Hi Mike,
Good to seee you on this blog.
I do not blame Ron either.
......It is just great fun to see Ron's insanity at work.
By
Anonymous, at 6:36 PM, May 14, 2006
No no Don't pay any attention to man who is naming names. Forget the past. Nothing to see here.
We just have to signal jam it all of the time...
If CDos bring TriW, worth the sacrifice of Riff Raff lives and homes and livlihoods. Punish the transgressor, how dare they vote against such fine and rightous policy.
If dissolution brings back TriW, it worth all the years of blood sweat and tears of effort down the drain.
Because:
If TRiW is built. THE BUILDING MORETORIUM WILL BE LIFTED. YAY. So they say...Everybody knows...its common knowledge...
Keep connecting the dots Ron, thats what these cronies and wannabes most fear. To have their numbers painted in.
By
Anonymous, at 7:02 PM, May 14, 2006
Let's see:
Who has the first beautiful signs up for the latest Los Osos pro-dissolve propaganda blitz? If you didn't notice they just went up this weekend.
You guessed it: Just the regular working folk of Los Osos- Van Buerdan and Johnson-Starlings. Why are they so interested in dissolving the CSD?
Once you answer that question, you'll realize that that the Dreamers are dreaming of personal profit rather than the best interests of the community. You'd be a fool not to see the connection.
By
Anonymous, at 11:13 PM, May 14, 2006
Hi Anon and Dogpatch above,
PLEEZZE! You are so very paranoid. Believing that this is all about "personal profit" is just plain not true.
A fantasy.
A fabrication.
A discontinuous hypothetical.
A hallucination.
A ghost.
What is this all about....well....
Folks are angry...angry that a well designed, approved, funded, and under construction waste water project that would have kept Los Osos from fines , CDOs, lawsuits and higher costs has been killed by a group of fuzzy thinkers with no plan, no money, no morals, and no brains.
By
Anonymous, at 8:18 AM, May 15, 2006
"It is just great fun to see Ron's insanity at work."
and
"insane comspiracy theories."
If I didn't know better (and I do), I'd say that's startin' to smell a lot like a coordinated effort -- you know, like the "strategy" to lobby Briggs for fines against your neighbors. "O.K. guys, here's what we'll do. Since we can't logically refute Crawford's excellent and tight sources, we'll just paint him as 'insane' and hope that sticks."
What I find ironic about that, is that it's coming from the same group of people that said, "better, cheaper, faster" in 1998, then put a tot lot in their sewer plant in 2001, then were called "bait and switchy" in 2004, then actively lobbied for massive fines against their neighbors in 2005.
And I'm the insane one? OhhhhhKaaaaay...
"So where is crawdaddy's brillient solution for the problems..."
That take always kills me. What makes you think I would know what your freaking solutions are?
That's like saying:
"Sure, USA Today was able to expose that the Federal Government is keeping a data base with billions off phone numbers that American's called, but where is that newspaper's brilliant solution for keeping the government from spying on its citizens?"
Huh?
Look, I'm not running for office, I'm just reporting on things, like a "strategy" to e-mail the RWQCB lobbying for massive fines on Los Osos residents. Now THAT's insane, and kind of newsworthy, don't cha think? Which means, of course, we'll never see any of it in the Trib.
You want solutions? Participate in your local meetings that deal with this subject.
DPR said:
"No no Don't pay any attention to man who is naming names. Forget the past. Nothing to see here.
We just have to signal jam it all of the time..."
Well put.
By
Ron, at 11:30 AM, May 15, 2006
Ron,
I am pleased to see that you do not disagree that you are insane.
I am pleased to see that you admit as not having any solutions.
I am pleased to see that you just cannot get off your mental merry-go-round.
By
Anonymous, at 12:12 PM, May 15, 2006
Ron,
I chalk the e-mails asking for fines and the like to a normal human behavior. Those who lost the last election thought (and still think) that TriW and saving the dream (TM) are what Los Osos ought to do. However, when they say what they new board intended to do (and has actually done) they got frightened and ran to Mommy saying "he hurt me, punish him." Well, probably not actually that, but you get the point.
Ron, do these same people you quoted currently stand behind the position of wanting individuals to be fined? You've got some names and phone numbers. Why bring up 6 month old quotes when you can call those same people today and see if they still feel the same way?
I also note with interest that you've contrasted letters from some time ago (to RWQCB staffers) asking the CSD (and sometimes individuals) to be fined with letters of late (to you) saying that individuals are afraid of individual actions. If these individuals are afraid of costly pumping ... because it's going to be costly ... why aren't they also afraid of the skyrocketing costs the current LOCSD board is bringing to them. Possibly because they don't know about these increased costs because the board isn't telling them ... the Trib isn't telling them ... and you certainly aren't telling people about higher costs.
Even though I don't agree with Neder, she has a good point and her point is one that the RWQCB staff seems to have rejected. If the individual CDOs were immediately very very costly (as opposed to the current grace period until 2010), it might make people put pressure on the LOCSD to do the right thing ... continue with the best and least expensive project designed so far.
Ron, you are criticizing the Yin folks as being cruel ... for asking for penalties so that they can get their way on the whole sewer issue. Where is your criticism of the real Yang group, Lisa, Julie, Gail and the rest who so much want to move the WWTF site that they are willing to raise our costs so that they can get their way?
Sounds about the same to me ... if it's cruel for neighbor A to want to raise neighbor B's bills, why is it okay for neighbor C do do the same?
By
Shark Inlet, at 1:52 PM, May 15, 2006
There you go again Shark, thinking the Tri-W project's known pricetag ($165,000,000) was ALL the cost we needed to know...the damned project was incomplete, the Coastal Development Permit REQUIRED ag exchange before dumping to the Bay, the damned harvest water was going to be piped back to the plant to be recirculated through the system, pumped back to Broderson, leached downslope to your house, harvested again and back to the FRIGG'N plant, a merry-go-round of water, cha-ching, cha-ching, until the plant could no longer handle it and then ...look out Morro Bay, overflows in emergency are allowed...when are there emergencies with sewer plants? Nearly every "first flush" and infiltration events...when was the old board going to explain that disposal plan and how much it was costing to maintain and then impliment future ag exchange? When were you planning to tell the community that added extra millions in cost?
Rube Goldberg would be embarrassed!
Just as Martha Neder, Jerry Gregory, Leon Van Bureden and others, you make your bed you lie in it, I prefer to make my own bed, get out of my life Leon and friends..."Get the Facts"? What a joke! What page of that website, touted by dramatic black signs, is going to explain the Tri-W project disposal plan and its extra cost when it fouls the leachfield and all that "restored" atop the Broderson leachfield, habitat has to be re-dug up and new leach rock installed (cha-ching!)? A major construction project in the Highland Dr. backyard, every 3-5 years depending on performance...you got facts?
Show me facts? No more bullshit!
By
Anonymous, at 11:04 PM, May 15, 2006
Hi Anon above,
Boy!.... do you NOT know what you are blogging about!
1. Ag exhange was NOT a requirement of the CCC Coastal Developement Permit.
2. Their were several purposes to the harvest wells.
+ To control ground water
levels.
+ As the ground water cleaned up, the wells were to be used as a source od drinking water: First by blending, later without blending as the nitrate levels dropped to acceptable levels.
+ Many more, but spacelimits listing.
3. The studies of the disposal of water at the Broderson site showed that daylighting of water downslope would not happen, even when the plant was fully oprational with full output. This issue was mitigated to the point of insignificance by the Project EIR.
4. Your fears of the Tri-W plant overflowing into Morro Bay are unfounded. First, the collection system was not to be a combination sewer / storm sewer. Storm water runoff would not be collected or pass through the treatment plant or be able to overwhelm it. Second, the sewer collection system was all new and uniform in construction with modern jointery. The level of water infiltration into the sewer system would be VERY VERY low to the point of insignificance. Third, there was over 4 days of storage capacity in the sewer system if there was a failure at the treament plant to operate. In the industry, such failures statistically are few; and when they do occur their duration is a matter of hours, not days.
5. Lastly, all waste water disposal systems, whether ponds or sub-surface disposal, need periodic maintenance. These costs are normal part of the overall O&M costs.
By
Anonymous, at 10:07 AM, May 16, 2006
Let's see: 1, 2, 3... 8, 9, 10, 11, 13 ?!
It took 13 comments before Shark chimed in? What? Are you slippin'?
"ran to Mommy saying "he hurt me, punish him."
Did you see Hodin's cartoon in New Times about a week ago?
It showed Roger Briggs as a leather-clad, "CDO" branding-iron yielding, dominatrix, and he was about to go to town on a little bear chained to a wall. I don't know where the line is in editorial cartooning, but, if one exists, that cartoon was close to it, but not over it. And it's my guess that it ended up on a few refrigerator doors in Los Osos.
"Why bring up 6 month old quotes when you can call those same people today and see if they still feel the same way?"
If reporters had to call every source to confirm if that source still agrees with what they said six months ago, nothing would ever get reported, and there are a lot of government agencies that would love to see that happen, however, good people like you and I, Shark, know better, right?
"Possibly because they don't know about these increased costs because the board isn't telling them ... the Trib isn't telling them ... and you certainly aren't telling people about higher costs."
What's the source of those "increased costs?" And, no offense, Shark, but, if you don't mind, I'd rather not use you as a source. Is there a document that you can point to that was created by a reputable wastewater engineer, or something, that shows those "increased cost?"
I'd love to see that. If I could get that confirmed by reputable sources other than anonymous commentors on a little-known blog, and wild speculation, then I would cover it in a second. But, until then, I don't blame the new board or the Trib for not "telling them," because, until we see some documents, (other than you, Shark, and, again, no offense), then there's simply nothing to tell.
You want a solution, people? It's already on its way. The good ship, Solution left the harbor about a month ago, and it shall return in August with its glorious bounty (basically, the project that should have been selected in the first place).
The question now is, how much will the estimated cost be?
Methinks tens of millions of dollars cheaper for a number of valid reasons.
Shark, I need to set up my pool. That'll be fun.
By
Ron, at 10:58 AM, May 16, 2006
Ron, I've suggested you simply run my numbers by a professional accountant. Shouldn't take you long to see that inflation and interest rates are the real killers here. Whatever Ripley comes up with, even if "cheaper", it won't be less expensive to us once we end up paying our monthly bills.
If you want a formal, official, engineer certified number, you've got to wait. It will be interesting to see how the Ripley report will present the results. Will we be comparing apples to apples or will we then be comparing apples to butternut squash? If the Ripley report doesn't include cost estimates on purchase of the land, the costs of retrofitting septics, legal fees and other siting related costs, design costs and the like, those numbers will have to be added in. Fines, if any, will have to be added in over a different timeframe with an "out of town" project than with TriW as it will take longer to get started. The interest rate and term of the bonds will also have a huge impact on any possible project.
How high? How much per month? My current guess ... even with a $30M cheaper plant, is that we'll end up paying about $375 per month because of other stuff ... inflation and our new higher interest rates (thank you very much, CSD!). Now, how again is that less expensive than TriW?
By
Shark Inlet, at 11:47 AM, May 16, 2006
RE:
"Anonymous said...
Hi Anon above,
Boy!.... do you NOT know what you are blogging about!"
Anonymous too, it is you who does not know what one blogs about...Coastal Development Permit condition #35 says..."In accordance with project revisions adopted by the LOCSD on June 17, 2004, the development activities authorized by this permit does not include the discharge of water harvested from the upper aquifer to Morro Bay or the Pacific Ocean. Any future proposal to discharge harvest water in such a manner requires an amendment to this permit, the application for which must be accompanied by evidence that other methods of disposal that retain the harvested water within the groundwater basin, such agricultural storage and use, have been exhausted."
The plans (before the revocation) clearly show pipes from the harvest wells to the Bay...the Los Osos Technical Task Force (LOTTF) identified those pipes and the LOCSD Board adopted an action to remove the pipe to the Bay, instead opting for "hiding the water", due to the cost associated with ag-exchange.
The point of bringing up the harvest scheme was to emphasize to Shark and others, that the plan was incomplete and $165M was just the begining.
I know the uses for harvest water, but without testing the waters constituents (which this Board is doing) there was no way of knowing if it is sutable for blending into the drinking supply...why on earth didn't the old Board follow through with those tests? They were approved in 2004, just before the Coastal Commission Substantial Issue hearing. Maybe you know?
You mention the daylight testing,you know they didn't use treated wastewater, they can't know what that water will do by using clean drinking water. It maybe wouldn't daylight right away, just give the pours in the sand time to close, and viola', you got daylight!
BTW, I am not afraid of the Tri-W sewer plant overflowing into the Bay, I am very afraid of pumps in low lying neighborhoods failing and raw sewage blowing off manholes and raw sewage heading to the bay, through homes, from the collection systsm. The infiltration I refered to is what will happen at the Tri-W site should the rain fall and fall, the percolation basin, the north east corner of site, was slated for the runoff from the 3 acre plant...that is also the location of the sewage overflow pit, that is merely lined with rip rap and it will be FULL when it is raining, so God help us if the plant needs to discharge for any reason on a rainy day.
The four days of storage you mention, will be hiding harvest water, or be eaten up by new develpment...bringing in the dreaded growth inducing arguement. Contrary to Semonson's scheme to limit growth by limiting the size of the plant, sorry Bob.
You also mention ongoing maintenace, as though ESHA restoration is somehow "normal". Restoration of ESHA is a fragile balance, costing millions, every 5 years or less!
Thanks for the dialogue...too bad some of this could not be debated for the public at large, verses this limited audience of the blog.
The old Board was invited to debate the new candidates, they refused...no comment, no meetings, no committee's, and $134,000 spent to Save the Dream (next time fill up the low income assistance fund, better spent there), and they still lost.
Oh, and by the way, who worte the dissolve website, it's terribly infactual, more bullshit! The community is too smart to fall for that stuff, they didn't in Sept. they won't next time either.
Oh Shark, I want my sewer out of town, at any price it will be better than Tri-W! It won't take an accountant to figure out the cost to dowtown Los Osos, the stigma alone will kill our business community dead!
By
Anonymous, at 9:53 PM, May 16, 2006
Oh great Crawdaddy, "how high is the sky?"
Tell me Ron, am I the only one that gets it?
This is my guess.
Ron is a writer, and a damn good one.
Bitch Piss and Moan about what he writes.
I'll read it, and my guess is so will you.
margaritas ante porcos
By
Mike Green, at 9:55 PM, May 16, 2006
To our most recent anonymous friend ...
You have a reasonable position ... that any price is worth paying to have an out of town plant as opposed to TriW. It makes sense that some would value moving the sewer that much.
However, I would think that you could at least understand those who would disagree because we cannot afford "any price". I've said (on Ann's blog, I believe) that I would be willing to spend an extra $20/month to have an out of town WWTF, but that $50/month or more was excessive from my point of view. I would imagine that there are many who would agree with me that TriW is already too darn expensive and that we can't afford an even more expensive project.
I suspect that many who started down the road with the current boardmembers did so because the costs of TriW were estimated to be very high. They must have figured that we could lower the costs by pursuing alternative technology and other sites. However, it seems that while it was a good hope, it is not going to happen. Economics and politics have sided against us and if we want to "move the sewer, no matter how much it costs", it will, indeed cost us a pretty penny.
Again, you are probably happy to spend $400/month to have an out of town sewer, but please respect that many in our community wouldn't agree that $400/month for out of town is better than $200/month for in town.
By
Shark Inlet, at 10:04 PM, May 16, 2006
Shark, when will you admit that the Tri-W sewer would have cost $400 per month? That's the point, no matter what is buit it will be expensive, the benefits of out of town, including alternative technology i.e. solar, methane, co-gen, wetlands polishing, sludge drying beds, reduced cost of astehics mitigation and on and on...the out of town sewer will be eligible for grants, Tri-W wouldn't have got a darn dime, strapped by its location, you couldn't add a solar panel if you tried. You couldn't add a sludge drying bed to reduce costs for hauling sludge, not in the heart of town! You couldn't do one darn thing creative, accept landscape the hell out of it and that all cost money, FYI, the ladnscape boulders for the retention basin (that's shaped like a bed pan) were $60,000! Out of town, you wouldn't need a single boulder, a chain link fence will do, perhaps some cypress trees irrigated by recycled water and occasionally pruned.
Get a clue, Tri-w is dead, even if the County tried they couldn't restart a project that was doomed to begin with. Their public works dept. shock their heads at the very conseption of wastewater treatment at that site, and NEVER considered it themselves. And you want them to be running the show? They can't even expand the library. It took 16 years to build a bike path through ESHA. It took 5-7 years to build a skateboard park that is a concrete mess...kids like it, but hoodlems do too, look what it has done to those neighbors...stolen patio furnityure, dogs let out of their yards to be hit by cars, grafitti the likes of which LO has never seen, in hind sight, it's a disaster.
he County will require the sewer user to pay to upgrade the roads, over $6 million was found nesessary in the asphalt report, never added to the engineers estimate...wouldn't want community support for a terd to wain now would we?
Notice to all who blog; let go of Tri-W! That project is dead! the LOCSD could use support for septic system management and an out of town solution to the LO sewer woes...we've all learned so much, let's share and work together to make this the last project Los Osos ever has to fight for, because it's the right thing for the water, the people, and its time to heal.
By
Anonymous, at 8:30 AM, May 17, 2006
Shark said:
"If you want a formal, official, engineer certified number, you've got to wait."
I do, and I will.
MG said:
"margaritas ante porcos"
I don't know what that is, but it sure sounds good.
An anon said:
"... let's share and work together to make this the last project Los Osos ever has to fight for, because it's the right thing for the water, the people, and its time to heal."
What I don't understand is, how could anyone be against that? Relentlessly fighting for a sewer plant in the middle of your beautiful coastal town, when there's absolutely no rationale behind that siting, because you might, might save a few bucks, makes absolutely no sense to me. I just don't understand it.
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Ron, at 10:22 AM, May 17, 2006
The new skateboard park is being trashed with grafitti. Well just imagine the field day the spraypaint fiends would have with a expansive cement wave wall in front of a mega sludge factory located close to the skate park. Your imagination can see the slum-ghetto appearanceit would create. What a sight for all those that visit beautiful Montano de Oro, right at the gateway to the park.
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Anonymous, at 10:58 AM, May 17, 2006
Am I one of the few to know that Stan Gustafson, his wife and three vehicles skulked out of town at 6:43 AM a week ago Friday?
Apparently he told some that he was going to Idaho or Iowa to visit his grandchildren. That's nice ... if true.
One question I have is why would someone move all of their furniture and belongings out, rent their house and skulk away in the early hours of the morning in a caravan just to visit their grandchildren?
Am I also the only one to know that allegedly Gustafson closed out all of his stock and money market investments last June or July during the recall signature effort. Hmmmm. Wonder why?
Am I the only one who knows that the FBI has allegedly paid two or more visits to ousted-in-disgrace ex-CSD Director Legrope regarding possible political corruption issues? (such as how do you afford a $1.3 million dollar home on a meager income?)
Outed-in-disgrace ex-CSD president Gustafson is well aware of the myriad of felonious offenses committed against Los Osos by the CSD between 01/99 and 09/05, and that he, along with Karner, Hensley, Freiler, Buel, Briggs and others may soon be held legally accountable. Perhaps he skipped town in order to avoid the inevitable.
I wonder when the other RATS will begin abandoning the sinking Taxpayer Watch ship.
Budd Sanford,
Los Osos resident
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Anonymous, at 11:19 AM, May 17, 2006
Ron,
What makes you think the people who live where you think the sewer ought to go, would want this in their yard?
What gives YOU the entitlement to think this way?
As an in-town, PZ Los Osos resident, I would rather not offend the people out of town with my waste products floating in a pond right in front of them, and I would also not like the gateway to Los Osos to be a sludge drying bed, surrounded by a chain link fence.
Ask the Clark Valley Road people what they would think of this. But I guess you don't care, do you?
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Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky, at 2:05 PM, May 17, 2006
How about the people living directly across the street from TriW?
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Anonymous, at 3:46 PM, May 17, 2006
The plant will be enclosed, odor scrubbed, no chain link. A park - now that might be prettier than a mini mall or a motel.
If it were to be the way it is described to be out of town across the street from Tri-W, you are right, of course not.
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Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky, at 7:59 PM, May 17, 2006
TriW was going to have cost $400 a month? That's such an off the wall figure that you should provide some documentation or reason or else no one is going to believe you.
You do have great point, however, when saying that fancy things, like solar and creative plant design might allow for some extra grants ... however the typical size of such grants and and the typical benefit of using solar (in lifecycle costing) is probably far less than two year's worth of inflation on any collection system and WWTF we'll build.
Another good point you make is that we don't really know what county engineers will do. However, once they look at the costs associated with the delay of putting a plant in another location, they'll support TriW, even with it's issues.
You write: "let go of Tri-W! That project is dead!" as though it is true. The possibility of building at TriW will exist until something else is built there or until a realistic and less expensive alternative plant is sited, permitted and designed. Additional delay hurts the TriW costs as well, but TriW has a 2 year advantage over the alternative plant, minimum. Likely it will be five years before any construction could start elsewhere.
There will be TriW advocates and TriW foes until something is completed.
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Shark Inlet, at 12:12 PM, May 18, 2006
"The plant will be enclosed, odor scrubbed, no chain link. A park - now that might be prettier than a mini mall or a motel."
I like the "will be " part. Newbietoons, it was also one hell of a grove of trees & wildflowers that many local children now grown into adults remember with fondness, are saddened by their passing, and are angry about the BS the caused them to come down. IMHO Tri-W will be sold to a private party or land conservency. The Boondoggle will then truly truly be dead & you fanatics will have to hate on this community about something else.
Great LOCSD meeting last night, very inclusive & inviting. No gavels being pounded or publically funded snitches in the audience taking notes on who is saying what to whom.
The odor scrubbing part of your beloved plan? An expensive joke.
Ask the town of Pacifica if, of course, you doubt me.
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Anonymous, at 1:58 PM, May 19, 2006
No, no chain link at the Tri-W sewer, just hog wire with a waved top (cha-ching!). The fences would surround the dog park and retention basins, to keep the dogs in and the people out of the water filled (during the rainy season -- still standing water today, it hasn't rained in a month) drainage basins, that's where the $60,000 in landscape boulders would be placed, to slow the flow from the runoff of LOVR.
The runoff from LOVR/Palisades/Ravenna was to be directed towards the fenced basin closest to LOVR, from there dry (in summer) river beds would meander through the sewer site towards another retention basin at the back of the property, that's the sewage overvlow basin I mentioned in a previous blog. My concern was that it would already be filled with rain water when the sewer overflows to the same location, no back up plan, raw sewage to the pit in the middle of town, disguised as a park.
Sewertoons, your concern for out of town astethics is amusing, a sewer plant can be a pretty or ugly as you're willing to pay for. If you'd prefer something other than chain link fencing, spaek up, be part of the process. A sewer plant in a rural setting could support barn/farm-like architechture very easily. That would be appealing to the eye. Ordor control measures of course will be in place, they are required by the Air Pollution Control District, sewer plants are NOT ALLOWED to stink! Good managment and equipment will keep it from stinking, the problem with odor control downtown was that any "fugitive odors" (Steve Hyland coined the phrase) were not allowed to leave the 11 acre site, managing an area so small cost a fortune, cha-ching, using negative air pressure (electricity) to suck the odors down below ground and into earthen filters, in the middle of town, disguised as a park.
The killer expense that was slated for Tri-W were the custom woven stainless steal wave patternd gates at the plant, cha-ching!, $30,000, those weren't gates, that was art! The $7,500 drinking fountain was a bit disturbing, too. Mame, this just wasn't a sewer plant. This was a sewer plant disguised as a park, parks are to be provided for by the County, this one was o be on the back of the sewer user, "benefitting" the whole community. I'd prefer to pass a Special Tax to have LO fund a park if the County won't use development fees as they were intended, to purchase and maintain our parks. A Special Tax takes 2/3 majority vote of all registered voters to be collected on the tax roll...Ron will tell you, no way, no how, people in LO didn't pass a $10 per year Special Tax to support a recreation program, they didn't pass the pool tax either. LO is economic challenged, voters are uncertain about their sewer future so they're unlikely to tax themselves until the sewer costs are nailed down...which, your beloved Tri-W was still climbing in price.
Get involved, make a difference, the new Board is making decisions without you.
By
Anonymous, at 6:47 AM, May 20, 2006
Shark,
Where are your figures that say and out of town sewer will cost $400 per month? Same place as mine, they don't exist. But, we all know once the projects shortfalls made themselves apparent the money to bandaid the damned thing would have to pour in...Broderson leachfield failure, would cost millions! Adding on ag exchange, millions, additional sludge processes, millions, and even covering the graffitti from skateboard park users on the concrete wave walls, would add to the monthly bils.
Your beloved Tri-W sewer IS dead, once the property is sold, the zoning will revert back, no Public Facilities zoning = no sewer project in that location! You are out of your mind if you think the Coastal Commission would rezone it PF after it is gone, never, not in a million years, they know they were lied to about the projects "overridding consideration" for "parks and offices" and "community acceptance". They know they were lied to that there was no ESHA at Andre or that a project out there was infeasible, it is not only feasible it is preferred! So kiss Tri-w goodbye, if you still want a park, I suggest you start a collection, host some BBQ's, and cookie sales, to buy the site before some developer does. But, have fun asking the community what they want there and finding consensous...developed park, preserved ESHA, CSD offices, outdoor theater, community garden, dog park? Whatever they want it for, they won't agree, and agree with their pocketbooks to maintain it.
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Anonymous, at 7:56 AM, May 20, 2006
Glad you asked ...
First off, I am surprised that you've not seen any calculations from me before. I've referenced them here, in Ann's blog and on the trib discussion forum several times. Perhaps you're new to the discussion and haven't read all the background material.
In any case, on the trib forum I postedclick a spreadsheet that is essentially a guesstimate based way of calculating the possible costs according too possible alternate futures. One nice thing about the spreadsheet is that you can adjust my guesstimated numbers to whatever you think is realistic and see how the various costs change.
The upshot is this ... we have no hope of ever getting a sewer/WWTF for less than TriW before the recall. Rememember that when guesstimating the cost of the collection system and WWTF you also need to figure the costs of of stemming saltwater intrusion and disposal of the treated wastewater. Those were delt with, at least in part, by TriW.
As to selling the TriW site, it would seem that the same logic that says "no treefall before recall" would also argue that the TriW and Broderson sites shouldn't be sold until we know what the Ripley results are in August and until the November election occurs. After all, if the majority of our community has changed their minds (which seems pretty likely, most people I speak with these days who supported the recall are currently disgusted with the actions and results of the current board), it would me shortsighted to sell off TriW when the next board will simply choose to build there.
Another matter ... at Thursday's meeting it was reported that LAFCO essentially told the CSD that they had two choices if they wanted to avoid dissolution ... to give the project over to the County or to work with the County (some sort of special board would be set up with representatives of both groups). I guess the CSD will be forced to choose whether they'll work with the County or whether they want to go it on their own and possibly risk dissolution. What's your opinion on that issue?
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Shark Inlet, at 11:19 AM, May 20, 2006
Shark, read your spread sheet, what a bunch of bologna! You have waaaaayyy too much time on your hands.
I do have some thoughts on LAFCO; more bologna!
What would divesting (Option A)solve? Delay, delay, delay! The County is unlikely to build at Tri-W, they aren't that stupid!
What would a JPA (Option B) solve? Even bigger delay! By the time we all lawyer up and find a staff to form another commission,with bylaws and MOU's and stuff, my gosh, they'll be no money going toward a project! No forward progress.
"No sewer" proponents like Gordon Hensley must be tickled pink at the delay's he's caused, 7 years on the Board supporting the most absurd, impossible, project, hiding behing those he painted as "anti-sewer" and now as many as 3-5yrs. before a new sewer is ready to break ground again, which I'm sure he'll try to stop too.
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Anonymous, at 7:53 PM, May 21, 2006
To our anonymous friend,
Are you saying that spending half an hour thinking through the sorts of things our board is facing is wasted time? You sense of civic duty is underwhelming. How can one make reasonable decisions without at least spending a bit of time first?
As to your claim that it is bologna ... your lack of specificity is, well, underwhelming. If you can't point out a real problem, your complaint is really pathetic.
If you think that LAFCO's letter is bologna, please remember that LAFCO gets to determine whether the CSD gets to continue. We don't really know what the County would do if dissolution or divestiture occurs. We do know that the CSD board will do pretty much anything to keep development at TriW. I do tend to agree that trying to get the County and CSD to work together may be a mistake. However, if the LOCSD and County don't have some agreement before June, LAFCO might just kill the CSD.
Your claim about Gordon trying to cause delay is ... um ... a bit odd.
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Shark Inlet, at 10:28 PM, May 21, 2006
Resonable decisions do not include bi-monthly pumping as your spread sheet does, that's a waste of time...the CSD has spent too much time and money hand-holding those who have been served CDO's, it's a great distraction from their real goals. Gordon is part of the scheme to distract the first and only Board that could actually build a sewer...those Cal Trans'ers and the houswife know what they're doing, get out of their way.
Want more specificity? Just how do you think the CSD will pay fines? They won't, it's cheaper to litigate until a sewer is built than to try to pay the water board fines -- that don't clean water.
LAFCO is another one of Gordon's distractions, both options will add years to a sewer project. Thanks Gordon, you've been very sucessful at keep a sewer out of LO, including fighting the Turri and Pismo sites.
I think the County and CSD could work well together, as long as the Tri-W site is off the table, which as of this morning Tri-W is FULL of water, higher than it was all winter...not exactly the best place for a sewer plant, as I have said before, it's now complicated by the grading that was done...you never did answer if you heard from Bruce about putting his house up as colateral for the grading permit. He did, it's unbelievable to what lengths he went to to grade that site, and get the SRF funds, the WWFfund was busted before the drawdown, that's why this Board is in finacial trouble, there was no money in the first place. It was also done without Board approval...ask Karen Vega for the resolution that allows the indemnity of the $225,060 surity bond...there is none.
By
Anonymous, at 10:20 AM, May 22, 2006
To our anonymous friend,
I like your response ... it's got some detail.
While you suggest that fines and CDOs shouldn't matter, I claim that they do to regular people who have to deal with them. Perhaps there are many who (after pumping charges are factored into their personal costs) think that the attempt to move the sewer was valiant but ultimately far too costly to pursue.
Even so, just zero those numbers out. One can still see that the big deal items are the delay (and associated inflation) and interest rate. The CSD is just too hamstrung by lawsuits and debt to get any reasonable interest rate when borrowing. Nope, the fines play a huge role. If there is even some chance that the CSD will be on the hook for any of our fines, we'll not be able to get anything like 7% if we want to borrow money to design a plant, buy property, pay staff and lawyers to guide the project throught the County, RWQCB and CCC approval process.
I just don't think that it will reasonably happen anytime soon.
To me it sounds far wiser to let the County take over and choose whether they want to continue TriW or whether they want to start back up with the Pismo location. If you're so sure that the County won't just go with TriW, why oppose dissolution?
I think that your take on Gordon is incorrect. What has happened in Los Osos is that every player, while well intentioned, has made a choice that has caused the worst possible outcome (so far). A classic prisoner's dilema.
Why would the TriW site need to be off the table? Why eliminate options? Why not put TriW as last choice? If "out of town" were going to cost $400/month and TriW only $275, wouldn't TriW be a better choice, even with flaws? I would say so.
As to the water ... please remember that there are currently no drains. There is also no way the County would have approved of the design unless there were drains sufficient to handle a considerable storm event.
To your Bruce question ... I don't remember you asking me about his house and colateral. Even if you had, I would have no way of getting an answer for you. Presumably if it were true and there were public documents that would indicate so ... and the CSD would have copies of any documents that relate to the grading bonds.
There was very little money in the WW Fund before the SRF came in for a variety of reasons. Interestingly enough, they had to pay to design a plant and to fight several lawsuits and the money seemed nearly gone. Perhaps I misunderstand you when you say that the current board is in trouble because there was no money in the WW Fund before construction started. If that is what you meant ... yes. The TriW project was ready to go and the board voted for it to start and it did start. Everything was going smoothly (well, for Los Osos, anyways). What ways could the previous board have kept more money in the WW Fund before the SRF? Even so, the current board has spent nearly all of the SRF money (which can only be used for TriW) on other things. I suspect they've spent more money than the WW Fund would have had in it even had the preivous board done everything you'll identify for us as what they should have done.
Is Karen Vega still working at the CSD office? I thought they had fired pretty much all of the staff who had worked there before the recall.
By
Shark Inlet, at 11:13 AM, May 22, 2006
Shark!
You have not been watching channel 20! Karen Vega is there for every CSD meeting taking roll call and taking the votes. She was off on paid leave, I believe, for some months and then came back. Then she got buried in cleaning up the huge piles of work that Bleskey couldn't manage to hire some temp help to mediate. There are a couple in the old crew who remain, she is one. It will be very, very interesting to see where the money was and where it went IF the court ordered audit takes place. According to Bleskey, the new office management woman - the wife of a another Wildan employee, was to start working with the auditors today, Monday. I have no idea of course it this has started or not.
And Shark - Thank you for your always thoughtful, intelligent and level-headed posts!
By
Sewertoons AKA Lynette Tornatzky, at 9:37 PM, May 22, 2006
Pat, Bruce and Michael Drake are the only staff that are gone, for a variety of reasons...you can figure out why each one is gone.
Had the first and only drawdown from the state not come, the old Board was poised to borrow $500,000 from the water fund to get contractors going...to commit your and my dollars to influence the voters to give up their hopes for a sustainable out of town sewer project that would accomplish more goals that the undesirable Tri-W project.
To have spent all the bond money, leaving the new Board with nothing, is exactly where the new Board is now that SRF funds are frozen...no difference.
Shark you are mistaken, the old Board spent the majority of the SRF fund, before the new Board got in office, and the new Board has outstanding bills left from the old Board to pay, that's the situation.
The new Board has had to hire new staff, one that is qualified to do the books, NOT a family member of Wildan employee, Sewertoons is mistaken. The new ASM is the wife on an inspector, hired by the District to do the street repair inspections...a bit of a stretch to Wildan. Unlike, the prior Board's hiring of Ann Pickens and Chuck McClenehan, clear cases of nepotism.
Shark, I just figured you were friendly enough to ask Bruce about his home, I've seen the documents, yep, Karen Vega has them at her finger tips.
Shark, the County approved the Tri-W site because the site was to percolate the runoff, there were/are NO drains allowed. The problem is clearly in the soil, they have dug too deep, hitting the clay layer, the water evaporates faster than it is absorbed. To be blunt, they F'd it up! That site used to filter the runoff and the water made its way to Sweet Springs, now it just sits, its a hazard, likely to breed mosquitos and a nuisance for people who traverse the fences, a liabilty we couldn't afford now or as a future sewer site...remember there were to be fenced retention basins, standing water as often as now...just not a good site for a sewer plant, any other developer could take his chances, the diferrence is, it isn't on my dime. I won't fight Tri-w being a choice, because I know it will pale in comparison. But, it's not just the site I'm concerned about, the disposal scheme is too risky and too expensive.
Question to all who are participating in this blog....Would you be willing to meet face to face for a debate? I have a feeling we all know each other, and we're in agreement about more things than we know.
By
Anonymous, at 8:10 AM, May 26, 2006
Anon (post 38) wrote: "Shark you are mistaken, the old Board spent the majority of the SRF fund, before the new Board got in office....."
Response: Incorrect. At the time of the Recall, the old Board left for the new Board $3,700,000 in SFR money in a trust fund at Mid State Bank (SLO); and an additional $480,000 in SRF money the CSD's operations account. The old Board also left the new Board an intact SRF loan with $128,000,000 committed in funds coming into the CSD to pay for the waste water project (so all outstanding bills inherited attached to that project were covered by the SRF loan.....as long as the project was under construction.) Of course, it is now history that when the new Board suspended the Project without first getting concurrence from the State, the CSD lost the SRF loan; and thereby the District's ability to pay off debt. It is unclear of how much and on what the CSD’s' inherited SRF money was spent between October 1, 2005 until the time that the Court froze the SRF fund. However, upon freezing $550,000 in SRF funds remain in the Trust Fund.
Your other concerns about the Project site and the disposal system are not supported by the Project FEIR or real-world fact. As for the disposal system costs and risks, compared to what? The costs are what they are; and the risks have been mitigated. Any disposal system...including Ag exchange, "purple pipe" or others, have large capital and operational costs with potential risk associated with them.
As for the folks that the new Board hires, I just don't give a damn as long as they are competent to perform the work.
Regards, Richard LeGros
By
Anonymous, at 11:19 AM, May 26, 2006
Thanks for adding your $0.02, Richard...
One thing you hint at has always been a key contention of mine ... assuming the new board was going to move the sewer, why couldn't they have gone to the state and said something like "hey, we appear to have a problem with Measure B and we're going to get a legal clarification from a judge, how about we put things on hold until we get that clarification ... oh, and by the way, is there any way you would consider continuing to fund our construction of the collection system while we explore the possibility of another WWTF location just in case we need to move the site?"
I believe if the SWRCB had been asked that sort of question they would have been very happy to put things on hold. Furthermore, it would have allowed the SWRCB to explore the possibility of moving the WWTF. As it was, the LOCSD action of stopping construction essentially forced the hand of the SWRCB.
Any thoughts?
By
Shark Inlet, at 1:56 PM, May 26, 2006
I don't think that we can conclude anything based on standing water.
I also dispute your contention that no drains would be allowed. On one side of LOVR there is a drain. Are you asking us to believe that the County would not allow the LOCSD to put in stormwater drains across the street? The problem here is not the site itself but the fact that the County/CSD has not figured out a way to deal with the excess stormwater from Broderson and the Bayview area.
Perhaps it is also worth reminding you that the dirt-piles created during construction are often not seen after construction is completed ...
I would probably be quite happy to meet up face-to-face for a friendly chat, but I also think that there is some safety in anonymity that would be lost. Mike and Ann and now Richard are people we know, but I don't know that I want to deal with the hassle of people getting in my face in "real life" because of my opinions. As to whether we know each other, I doubt that all of us are people who would be recognized. I actually suspect that only one other participant here knows anything about me at all.
Hell, I'm game if we get buy in from a few of the key players and can agree to keep our screen names private if we prefer.
By
Shark Inlet, at 2:09 PM, May 26, 2006
"Unlike, the prior Board's hiring of Ann Pickens and Chuck McClenehan, clear cases of nepotism."
First of all it is Anne Pickens - with an "e" - at least try to get that right. AND my husband had no part in my taking the Administrative Clerk and then Accounts Payable positions with the CSD. In the case of the first it was at the request of the former ASM, Ms. Corenbaum to substitute for Ms. Rossomando who went on a months vacation in May of 02 and then resigned...I applied for the position. If anyone else applied I do not know. I specifically mentioned to Ms. Corenbaum my concern regarding the perception of the community regarding "nepotism". She was not concerned since she (Ms. Corenbaum) was my direct supervisor. I did not work for the fire department. The move to A/P was because Ms. Corenbaum abruptly left her position in late March of 04 and Ms. McClenahan was performing the duties of A/P and ASM until the hiring process was completed. All three positions were advertized - ASM, A/P and Administrative Clerk. I resigned from the CSD at the end of October 04.
Even though I no longer live in Los Osos I still check in periodically so see what it happening with the Neverending Sewer Saga.
Regards,
Anne Pickens
By
Anonymous, at 3:06 PM, May 29, 2006
Shark, Not one person besides Ann has shown the slightest interest in me.
I think you are perhaps a little too shy?
Whatever makes you comfy is OK with me.
By
Mike Green, at 9:14 PM, May 31, 2006
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